There are three levels. One is super-polite, where "im ni da" is on the end of everything. This is the one that would be used for grandparents or bosses. The next one is formal but not overly polite. This is the one that puts "yo" on the end of everything. It can be used with friends who or older than you or carry a higher job title.
The last one drops the endings altogether and simply uses the word or phrase itself. Sometimes, "ya" is put on the end of this one because it is more comfortable for Koreans to end statements and words with that sound.
The weird thing is the anecdote the column uses to display its proof of a drop off.
From the column:
'This concern was highlighted recently when a 39-year-old judge reprimanded a 69-year-old man during a trial, saying the latter was behaving “rude.”I understand the guy was older, but -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- a judge is in a position of authority and should be the one commanding the most respect in that room. It shouldn't matter that the man was older. And for that matter, he was on trial and probably was being quite rude.
Many Koreans found the “young” judge’s remark very “inappropriate.” The oldman indeed may have behaved in an ill-mannered way. But in the Korean language, the term “beo reut eop da” (rude) is exclusively used by an older person in rebuking someone who is younger. For many Koreans, the judge’s remark was unacceptable because the role was reversed and he was 20 years junior to the oldman.'
I don't know how society used to be, but I can tell you that students ALMOST NEVER use the polite forms of words. Ninety percent of them only use the casual to teachers, other adults and authority figures.
Koreans my age and a little older still know to use the super-polite with their bosses and other superiors, but I don't hear them use it when speaking to their parents or grandparents. I understand that it's family so they're very close, but by conditioning them not to use it like that, it only makes sense that it becomes less frequent.
I use the formal "yo" almost all the time. With my very close Korean friends, with younger Korean friends and even with students most of the time, I use the "yo." I realize I don't have to, but it puts me in the habit of using it. That way, if I am talking to a boss or grandparents or someone like that, I'm conditioned to be polite.
It's true that many foreigners learning the language don't do this. Now, many of those who learn only learn survival words and phrases. They understand that there are different levels of formality, but they aren't concerned with learning it, using the fact they're foreign as a way to excuse themselves from it.
It does make me cringe when I am with someone who uses a Korean phrases without an honorific ending. I don't want to be grouped in as someone who doesn't respect the country enough to be polite and formal. Of course, that's why I try to do most of the talking when it's to Koreans. Haha.
6 comments:
Hi Aaron, I keep trying to post a comment on here and it's not working. I was just wondering if you'd been having any trouble that you knew of with the comments?
Hi Aaron, I've been reading your blog for a while, nice work! I'm especially grateful for someone who blogs about football in Korea!
This is an interesting article, there's a surprisingly good amount of interesting stuff in it, thanks for doing a piece on it.
As for the judge example, I think they were wrong to translate “beoreuteopda (버릇없다)” as "rude," because it's actually stronger than that. A "beoreut" is actually a habit, or a manner, which makes it more similar to saying "you've got no manners," which I think is more a comment on a person's character than simply a comment on someone's actions at a certain point in time.
That said, I agree with you that a certain level of manners and politeness should be required in court. It's interesting the article never actually mentions who the guy was. When I read it first I got the impression he was the defendant, but looking back over it it never actually says this. Surely the actual defendant would have better sense than to be rude to a judge. But still, rude is rude, and I also agree that the judge seemed to be well within his rights to reprimand him. Perhaps there would have been a better way of doing it though, as it's not very becoming of someone in such an official position as a judge to be telling people they have no manners. Maybe a good old "such behaviour is not acceptable in court. I will have to ask you to refrain," would have been better.
It's true that recently officials have got a bit of a reputation for unnecessary rudeness, and as an outsider I might be inclined to put that down to an abuse of the authority and respect bestowed upon them by their position in a Confucian context. I've written about the altered nature of Confucianism in the Korean education system before in this post, and I think a lot of it's relevant in a wider Korean context as well.
As for judges, I think they should really use the most formal, neutral words. After all, the principle requirement for their job is to be impartial, and it's hard to do so if you're speaking to people in a way in which you know can be considered rude.
OK, I think I've worked this out now. Sorry for monopolising the comments section, it's just that my comment was too long.
Anyways, it continues:
I do think, however, that you've slightly misunderstood the different levels of Korean speech. the "imnida" (입니다) form is known as the polite formal. The "yo" (요) form is the polite informal. Neither is more polite than the other. Therefore, a student using the "yo" form to a teacher is not being rude. They are being informal but polite, and this is considered appropriate. The other form you mentioned, that drops the "yo," is known as the impolite informal, but it's important to note that if it's used in the appropriate situation - such as to a friend or someone close but younger - it is also not rude or improper. Then you have the honourific forms, which involve using the honourific infix, shi (시), which is irregular in the "yo" form. This means that the verb to do (하다), becomes in the honourific forms of each form: 하십니다 (honourific polite formal), 하세요 (honourific polite informal), 하셔 (honourific impolite informal).
Use of the first set of forms depends on the situation - who you are talking to, where you are, etc. Use of the second set, the ones with the honourific infix, is determined by who is doing the action as well as the situation. So, if I was talking to a close friend, asking them when their parents are coming, I could say "언제 오셔?" I've dropped the "yo" because I'm talking to my friend - the situation doesn't require it, but because it's their parents who are doing the action I'm inquiring about, I also include the honourific infix.
Hello asadalthought! Thank you so much for all your commenting. I think I did have a little misuderstanding of the formality. For whatever reason, I was under the impression that "imnida" (입니다) and "yo" (요) implied a different level of respect. I would love to re-post some of your comments as it's own blog post on the front page. I'll give you credit, of course. But you gave a clear explanation that I would like to highlight. Is that okay with you???
Also, you have a great blog. Can I link it on the left side of my page of blogs I follow? I think my friends and family back home would learn a lot from your posts. Let me know. Thank you!
Yeah, no problem! And link away, I've just put your blog on my blogroll as well. I haven't been posting for a while until very recently due to just not having the time, but hopefully I'll be getting some new posts up now, so do drop by some more!
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